Date of interview: 18/8/2025
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
So, Sandra – thanks for welcoming us on ABS News’ legendary couch. I’d been meaning to sit here for a while before this interview!
I wanted to start by asking you about the work you’ve been doing as a local councillor in St Paul’s Bay, as well as the work that is being done on Attard’s local council by your colleague, Ralph Cassar.
This is your first experience as a local councillor. So, explain that to me – how’s it going?
“Well, when it comes to the work itself, you can tell there’s a lot of bureaucracy involved. It’s incredible; for every little thing, you need to know who owns what, who’s responsible for maintenance, and so on.
It’s like a serious investigation is required every time you want to do something. When it comes to me and the work I’m doing as a councillor, it’s mostly answering people’s questions on a daily basis.
Recently, I also presented a draft proposal that concerns the tourist tax. Currently, this tourist tax goes to the Malta Tourism Authority. As a party, we believe that this tax should go to the local council.
If not all of it, at least part of it. For those who don’t know, this tax is used for cleansing and maintenance services, which is something that we really lack in St Paul’s Bay. So, this would help us bring more people to do regular cleaning, because as we all know, we have a huge problem with cleanliness here.
Because of this, I am putting forward this proposal so that, as a council, we can access these funds. I also hope that this creates a ripple effect by enticing other local councils to do the same in localities that see a lot of tourism.
We are also currently working with a street artist so we can paint a mural in Xemxija. He financed the project himself, we just spoke to the people who own the property and made the connection. He is currently preparing the facade so he can start painting it soon.
I also helped St Paul’s Bay’s primary school to tap into Arts Council funding so they can also get a mural painted on their building. This is all apart from the ongoing work I do to raise awareness about the uptake of public space on our beaches – as usual, keeping watch for those who want to take our beaches.
Naturally, when it comes to these kinds of things, people come to me. In Attard, Ralph Cassar is working very hard. He is expanding the local library, because he’s a teacher like me and we both love reading and we both believe we should finance these libraries.
He is also working on more tree-planting and the general embellishment of the locality. These are among the things he is working on.”
Okay, so, just to recap – you mentioned a lot of daily maintenance and the general upkeep that keeps the civic wheel turning.
I would expect a local council to be busy with that kind of work, so I have no doubt you’ve had your hands full.
“Yes, I think our local council is hands down the most difficult one in Malta. Nobody denies this.”
That’s interesting – why do you think so?
“Well, first of all, it’s because we have the biggest grouping of localities. There’s six in total. I hope I don’t forget anyone, but in St Paul’s Bay, we have Qawra, Buġibba, St Paul’s, Wardija, Burmarrad, and Xemxija.
So, it’s a big challenge. It’s also a very multicultural place. They’re the kind of challenges which are specific to this region, and we need a lot of external help. There are a lot of good people within the council, but we need a lot more help with cleaning, integration services, and lots of social cases, too. There’s a lot going on.
Since I’m not just a local councillor but also a teacher in this same locality, I get a different perspective on what’s going on. There’s a lot of problems.”
I was going to ask you about what you think is good about being on the council and what you think needs to be improved.
Obviously, this job brings you very close to what people are dealing with. You get to feel their pulse on a daily basis.
However, you mentioned a lot of things which are not going well just now. Besides the bureaucracy you mentioned earlier, you’re mainly talking about a lack of resources here, no?
“Yes. When it comes to finances, local councils are always limited. We are being very careful with our spending, of course, to make sure that there is no waste. I pay particular attention to this.
I firmly believe in making sure that we’re very careful with the council’s finances…I used to think that I knew what bureaucracy looked like until I came face to face with it, and it’s honestly suffocating.
Nobody wants to be responsible for anything and nobody seems to know anything about anything. Like I said, sometimes it takes a lot of searching and investigating just to get something relatively small done.
It’s honestly embarrassing sometimes, because I end up being unable to deliver what I promised. After a year, I’ve grown more used to the maneuvering that needs to be done, so it’s better now. I was a bit lost for the first three months.”
After a year of dealing with the same authorities, I think they eventually start to get used to you and they’ll generally know what to expect if they get a call from you.
“Yes, and you need to keep pestering them, otherwise you’ll get nothing if you just give up.”
What’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned from this whole experience you just described? How does it inform your perspective as a politician and the leader of a party?
“I learned that you really need to think carefully about what you’re going to do, how you’re going to put it, and which channels you should use, because otherwise, you’ll find someone who will obstruct your path.
You need to say things in a certain way to bring everybody on board so you can avoid anyone who may want to sabotage you. It’s not easy, but it’s not impossible. You need to give people a certain perspective – if something is good for the locality and you vote against it, then you need to know that you’ll be cast in a bad light because of it.
“You need to do your homework really well beforehand, you need to know the people who are in front of you really inside out so you can understand what their issues are and use that in your favour.”
I understand. You learned to navigate a new kind of diplomatic territory. After all, you’re a sole representative on this council.
“Yes, exactly, so I need to do a balancing act between both sides. On the whole, I think I’m doing well, though I believe more needs to be done. We’ll keep working.”
Fair enough. I wish you well for the rest of this legislature.
“Thank you.”
Let’s move on to another topic, which is still somewhat related.
As we said before we started this interview, last year’s local council elections were ADPD’s first electoral success in years.
However, this progress has not yet been translated to the national scale, be it in general elections or MEP elections.
A big reason why I’m interested in this interview is that I believe that Malta’s political landscape is at an inflection point.
It is statistically clear that the Labour Party and the Nationalist Party are losing the total grip they had on political power. A third of the electorate doesn’t like one or the other.
Having said that, this hasn’t translated into votes for you.
So, for the upcoming general elections, what are you going to do differently this time around, so you can succeed where you previously didn’t manage?
A photo of ADPD chairperson Sandra Gauci at the counting hall during the local council elections. Photo: ADPD
“Well, I think we were always consistent, and we are not sponsored. We don’t have any of these developers behind us. As we’re currently seeing, Malta became a victim of these oligarchs who have their puppets in Parliament, just like we saw here (in Qawra), when both parties voted in favour of giving AX Group 13,000sqm of land.
We are not sponsored. In fact, that’s my idea for our electoral slogan. We are the only voice of the citizens, and we will fight for citizens’ rights by carrying that voice forward. You need to give us strength to do so.
We want to earn because we understand that it must be earned, and we believe we are consistent enough to win people over.
I know that some people feel like it’s almost physically impossible for them to vote differently to what they usually vote for, but by being consistent and by doing things like the unprecedented court case we filed to change the electoral system (which we’ll get a judgement for in October), we can win.
These are things which can elect us to Parliament. There are certain things which effectively fuse the Labour Party and the Nationalist Party into one thing, things which make them quickly forget the differences that they are supposed to have.
We are the light in the darkness which you are seeing around you right now. We want to change the country for the better. I’m tired of hearing sad stories about how the country has reached the bottom. I don’t believe that.
While we could certainly wake up from our slumber, we cannot keep dragging our country down. There are people of goodwill, and I believe they exist. We don’t need to give up. It’s not true that the country’s gone to the dogs. We can rise like a phoenix, together, by being consistent, by electing people in Parliament who have no strings attached and who can really serve as the people’s voice.
As ADPD, we were always consistent with this. We always refused any type of financing from people who are now making your lives miserable, with slime in the sea, construction everywhere, with constant abuse of public land and spaces – we never wanted to hear from these people.
We are not against business. We are against people who abuse their position and their money. I am not blinded by money. I see people who will bow their heads and bend like chewing gum whenever they see someone with money. I don’t do that. I’ll ask them where they’re getting their money from. If we need to, we’ll tax them more.”
(somewhat speechless for a second)…I’m smiling because you were speaking very passionately just now. You spoke with a lot of justifiable rage.
“It’s because I see these things every day; I have to live them and fight them. Malta is owned by about 12 families that I can mention one after the other. It’s always the same people. One guy wants to build on ODZ, another wants to build a tower, the other just built up the coastline. It’s always the same.
Someone needs to stop these people. We can’t always just bow our heads to people with money. I don’t care who you are. I don’t know these people. We can go after them. We cannot just keep this up.”
Fair enough.
Your message was always very clear. In fact, I noted down that you used the word ‘consistency’ repeatedly in your arguments, because that’s what ADPD has been.
If there’s one thing critics can’t accuse you of, it’s a lack of truthfulness to the values which you are so passionate about.
A photo of a press conference organised by ADPD. Photo: ADPD
However, my question is about why that passion can be carried over to voters, in a way that sort of ‘converts them’ to your cause.
Something you had mentioned after last year’s elections was that ADPD needs to be rebranded.
“Yes, we’re working on it.”
…so, when I ask you what’s different this time around, your message is consistent and it does resonate with that one third of the electorate that is so dissatisfied.
However, somehow, that passion isn’t reaching them.
Talk to me a bit more about this and the rebranding you just said you’re doing. What are your thoughts about this exactly?
“Currently, we are thinking of something a bit fresher, new, and hopefully more appealing to younger voters, whom I encourage to approach me or Sam, who’s in charge of our youth branch.
Even just saying our name is an earful, ADPD. I want to change our name, our logo, and our strategy. We need to change how we present ourselves. Hopefully, we’ll attract new people who will help us renew the party.
We need renewal, without casting aside our veterans, of course. It is not easy to find people these days. Everyone’s afraid or uninterested, so it’s not easy. Even the big parties were struggling to find candidates, so you can imagine how difficult it was for us, especially when we’re going against the current in every way.
We need to be more energetic, and we need to dress down our language because sometimes we’re a bit too intellectual. I like simplifying our message so it can come across clearly to more people.
We can’t think about trying to attract a certain type of voter. We need to fish the whole sea. We can’t limit ourselves to our own little puddle. I’m happy with 1.5% of the electorate, but why can’t we grow more? Are we going to just stick to our 1.5%?
I want us to grow bigger than that, so we need to use new methods to do that. We need to look less stuffed-up, too. We need to be a bit more relaxed and approachable. We need to be serious, but we also need to speak to younger people in their own language.”
Right, a younger audience wouldn’t really relate to the standard format of a press conference, for example.
“Yes, exactly. As a teacher, I know that after seven seconds of listening to someone talk, people tend to zone out. So you’re a politician and an entertainer. You need to keep them interested. Speaking for myself, I can think of some people who totally bore me after a couple of minutes of hearing them speak.
So, we need to see that our language must be presented in a fresh manner.”
Okay – let me ask you a few quick questions about this subject. Do you have a formal registration system for party members?
“Yes, we do.”
Okay, can you give me a number?
“Based on what I last heard, there’s just 60 paid members. Hopefully, this number will grow. Most people don’t enjoy the idea that they’d be seen as a paid member of our party. For those who may be worried, you can rest assured that your membership won’t be visible anywhere public.
It also helps our party a lot. The membership isn’t that expensive, it’s €15 per year. It’s a way of showing your support.”
Okay. And when it comes to support from the general public, of course, the best way to tell is to look at the number of voters during general elections.
Let’s talk about what happened since the last general elections in 2022; how have you been doing since then? Do you think you’ve managed to expand your reach? Or are you still struggling with that? Where is ADPD right now, on this front?
“Well, I think there’s a lot more we could do. But when it comes to reach, if you choose your topics well, you can reach a lot of people. We need to pick subjects which are really on people’s minds, what’s really hurting them right now.
We can’t talk too much about things which are too abstract. I notice that when people are following our press conferences, if we’re talking about tangible things which are bothering them at that very moment – a road that’s been closed for months, for example – people follow you, because they can see you’re sticking up for them.
If we’re going to talk about more abstract concepts like global warming, which of course we must talk about, you can immediately notice that people will follow with a lot less interest. We’re a green party, so obviously we’ll keep talking about it, but we also know that it doesn’t bring votes.
So, we need to work more with our brain than with our heart sometimes…of course we’ll talk about things like how Vision 2050 doesn’t even take climate change into account, but we also need to talk more about tangible issues.
People will only really understand what they interact with on a daily basis. If you talk about public debt, we haven’t yet found how it’s going to affect people in that way. I try, and there are people who understand, but you won’t get a wider spread of people.
If we’re talking about taking money directly out of people’s pockets through something like taxes, that’s different, but public debt feels like an abstract concept that’s not understood. So again, we need to talk about it, but it can’t be our battle horse, either.
We need to fight for public land, that should be our battle horse. That you have the right to live at peace, to sunlight in your home. These are things people clearly understand because they face them every day.”
Problems that people live every day, understood. You want to tailor your message to that. Targeted messaging.
“We can’t be too philosophical in our discourse, though we don’t do that as much as we used to. You can feel whenever something is important but it just won’t be a hit with people.”
And of course, you need to reason in this manner because you are trying to expand your audience and the amount of potential supporters. To do that, you need to reach as many people as possible.
“Yes, exactly. None of what I said takes away any of the importance of the other subjects, of course.”
Understood. To reach more people, you need to apply this strategy. Let me move on to another theme – this is an uncomfortable fact, but the fact is that there is a voter base for an alternative party that is being split into factions.
There’s you, and there’s Partit Momentum led by Arnold Cassola, who everyone knows as the former chairperson of your party.
I think it’s very interesting that during last year’s elections, both of you did well in different ways.
ADPD did well by clinching two local council seats. Arnold’s independent campaign, which now forms the core of Momentum, led to the best result there ever was for an independent candidate.
I mention both of you together because of the context of this problem – this split of the alternative vote between two options, neither of which has the scale to compete with major parties.
So, if I had to ask you whether you’d consider forming part of a coalition during the next general elections, is this something you would do? Especially because of how limited your resources are?
“That’s true. As a party, we were always open to merging and expanding, like when AD joined PD. Sometimes, however, there are certain character differences which, based on what I’ve seen, sometimes cannot be bridged.
However, we can still strategically avoid stepping on each other’s toes, and we can still work together without being together in a coalition. That way, we can still give people a real alternative.
As a party, we always had a candidate in every district. I don’t know what Partit Momentum will have, but I believe that if we work together without being officially together, we can get there.”
Okay, but I’m going to insist on this because I think it’s very crucial, especially in the context of the upcoming general elections.
As we mentioned earlier, both of your parties struggle with a lack of resources. The electoral system is also skewed against you.
What’s more, your platforms are almost identical on a number of issues.
I ran an analysis of the last few months of press releases from both parties.
The amount of convergence is phenomenal. You issued practically identical statements on the following: planning, the environment, construction, public order, tourism, corruption and the rule of law, Gaza, changes in the electoral system, transparency and accountability…
You’re aiming for the same audience. The platform is already shared, whether you want to or not.
Don’t you think that Malta needs you all to cast aside these personal issues?
“Well, from my end, I have no problem with this. I have no personal grudge towards Arnold. I’ve never worked with him. I don’t rule it out, but that’s all I can say for now, because I don’t know what can happen.
In a way, I agree with you. I think there needs to be more unity, but there’s a lot of work that needs to be done on some people’s egos (not from my end). There are issues which dragged on for years, and I inherited them. That’s the problem.”
You’re being a bit nebulous there.
“If we want to be very clear, if you have someone who can’t work in a team, it’s going to break you. That’s why I’m saying we should work separately, because if we worked entirely together, there would be sparks. The 3% share of one party and the 1.5% of the other won’t add up 4.5% just like that.
My colleagues witnessed more than I did and do not wish to go through it all again. They are happy to work with me – not for me – and for the party, and that’s it. But when divas are involved, we can’t get anywhere. If your character’s been the same for so long, you’re not going to change it so quickly.
It bothers me to speak about things in this way, but this really is an issue. Everyone wants the limelight, everyone wants to be seen, and we forget about fighting for the country, which really needs it right now. It’s not easy…knowing the history, I’ll end up in the role of the referee.”
Okay, let’s clarify this for the audience’s sake: the real issue here is a lack of personal agreement.
You joined after all this happened. So the problem is between people who are still in your party and Arnold Cassola. So, are you saying that people in your party are objecting to this?
Because you don’t seem to be objecting to it.
“Yes, because I need them in my party. I can’t irritate and risk losing people in my party who work really hard and who genuinely love the party. If I gain something, I lose something. So, at the end of the day, who do I want to keep? My party that supports me and trusts me? Or are we going back to someone who they’ve already experienced?
That’s it, really. I can’t lose my team because I’ll end up alone. They’ll tell me that if I want to join Arnold, I can go off on my own. I have my team, who I trust because they are principled, valid people, and I can’t risk that for something unknown. I have my team, we work together, we trust each other, and that’s it.”
Based on what you’re saying, I think it’s almost better that you’re in different parties nowadays.
If there was such a lack of agreement on a molecular level within the party, perhaps it would be easier to resolve those differences as separate entities who can deal with each other differently.
“Yes, exactly, you get it.”
…after all, he has his own team…
“…and we have our own, that’s it. We want to make our country better, and we can follow that path. As I said, I think we can work together separately.”
Understood. I wanted to ask you about something I wanted to mention earlier.
We are talking about whether it’s worth considering a partnership or whatever you would like to call it.
This would, in theory, level the playing field with major parties. Because this is all about overcoming the gap.
Let’s forget this possibility of a partnership for a second. How else are you going to overcome this gap? Major parties have big electoral war chests.
The scale is different. What is going to help you overcome this? You mentioned consistency a lot. How are you going to convince the voters of major parties to switch to you? How are you going to sell your consistency to them?
“With our honesty and with more direct house visits. We need to fight for every vote. We can’t stay in a bubble. We don’t need a thousand people at once – even if it’s just meeting small groups of people on the corner of the road.
They can start insulting me in the street for all I care. Last time, a woman in Valletta stopped me to yell at me about the local council. Fair enough. I listened to her, and she went on her way. I want people to see us, to talk to us, to get used to our faces. This needs to be our selling point.
We don’t need to be too ambitious and think of filling up Fosos with a massive crowd. Go meet people in a bar, drink a beer with people there. Ask them what’s bothering them, follow up on it, take notes. Sometimes, people just want someone to listen to them, because they’re lonely, or there’s something they just don’t know about.
We need to be more on the ground, we need more people to recognise us. This is something we’ve struggled with. People don’t know all our candidates. We shouldn’t be scared of being in a public space and talking to people; at the end of the day, they are our voters. We can’t just keep doing press conferences and press releases.
We don’t have newsrooms or newspapers at our disposal, but we do have valid, talented, capable people who need to believe in themselves and go out there and persuade people, one by one. With dedication and a lot of time, I think we can get there. This could be the skewing point in our favour.”
This an off-script, but important question.
I think that, first of all, to express my personal opinion, I admire people like you who have gone into such a thankless fight. I think you hear more complaints than gratitude.
You’re someone who has a lot to do. You have a career…
“…and kids!”
Yes, a quick shout out to the kids, too.
You have a lot on your plate. This is a lot to take in. You’re putting yourself out there for another general election.
Let’s explore both scenarios – success, and a lack of it. Let’s start with the first one: what can we expect from Sandra as an MP?
“First of all, there will be someone who will be watching what these two main parties will be doing, which do things more or less the same. That there will be someone stopping abuse, someone who votes according to what the country needs, not according to the interests of a small clique of people.
What happened to fighting for the common good? We seem to have forgotten about this. We cannot let wealthy people lead us by the nose. In a practical way, with things like party financing and sources of wealth being declared instead of having a prime minister who doesn’t want to declare his assets.
There needs to be a revision of how we vote, too. Obviously, we also need to push forward a green agenda, especially when it comes to energy. This summer, we witnessed more power cuts. If there were more people using renewable energy, we wouldn’t need a second interconnector. We need to get people off the grid, not more on it.
We need sustainable tourism, not just building more hotels, which are themselves built by foreigners rather than locals because it’s hard to find locals (in that industry). We are bringing in more tourists and workers. We need more serious enforcement with locations like Comino, which is a Natura 2000 site.
Many people tell us that we are against construction – this is not true. We are against rampant over-construction. We want whatever has to do with the industry to be of good quality, designed with people’s well being in mind. We don’t want people living in cramped spaces without sunlight and other basic necessities.
These are tangible things which we want to work on and which all of you could benefit from.”
I was going to give you the opportunity to conclude with a message to the audience, but you seem to have beat me to it.
Okay, so we know what to expect from Sandra as an MP. This list you just gave us is an example of what your policy priorities would look like on a practical level.
What happens if you don’t become an MP? What will you do if you’re not elected in the upcoming general elections? Will we still be hearing from you?
“Well, if I’m not elected, I don’t think I’ll continue leading the party. I think I would have done everything I could have done by then, and I think it would probably be time to let someone else take over.
I’d still continue my term as a local councillor, of course, but I don’t think I’d have anything left to contribute as party leader. I’m sure I gave it everything I got, there was a lot of time and energy dedicated to this.
People know what’s good and what’s bad with me, so I think by then, it would be time.”
Okay, so in fewer words – if you want Sandra in Parliament, it’s now or never.
“Yes, exactly, because I think there’s a limit to how much a person can give. If people don’t want you, you shouldn’t impose yourself on them.”
Fair enough. I think it’s actually refreshing to hear that, because there are a lot of politicians who spent a long time in Parliament who expired a long time ago. Maybe if they had a bit more humility, things would be different.
Those are all the questions I had for you today.
I don’t know whether you want to address any other subject before closing, or maybe some sort of closing comment.
“I’d like to address whoever is watching this and tell them not to give up. Don’t let them fill you up with sorrow and tell you that it’s hopeless, we have a beautiful country. If there is serious enforcement, we can fix it. A lot of damage has been done to this country, but we cannot throw it all away.
We have a civic duty to fight for it until the very last moment. I invite all young people, who everyone says that they’ve given up – I don’t blame you. When I hear some people talk, I too want to leave the country, but you are here and I invite you to work with us to give this country what it deserves.
This country’s weakest link is a lack of enforcement. If we enforce laws that already exist, we can bring the country back on its feet. For this, we need serious people who believe in what they say and who have no agenda except for the country’s wellbeing. You can find this in me and my party.
Give us your strength, believe in us, and we’ll get there. All this country needs is our help, a justice system that works for everyone and not for whoever has a good lawyer who they paid good money for. Let’s not give up on a country that’s got so much left to offer.”
Sandra – thanks a lot for your time and for the energy you brought to this interview.
I wish you well, and I hope we get a bit more green in Parliament.
“I hope so. I don’t care if it’s me, or Arnold, or whoever – if you look at the numbers, it’s him, me, and then Ralph, so the odds are there. I hope someone breaks this glass ceiling. It makes a huge difference in a local council, let alone in Parliament.”
Sandra, thank you.